Supply rates of pay

[becstar]

Hi
I was made redundant from my position as teacher and centre manager of an outdoor ed centre within Birmingham City Council on 8th May this year. I was in this position for 4 1/2 years and before this, 2 years as a primary class teacher.
Last week I went to sign up at an education agency in Birmingham for Primary supply work and despite my 6 1/2 years of both teaching and management experience, I was offered just £110 per day as my rate of pay. My recruitment consultant said that this was now the going rate for someone with my experience as schools can't afford higher rates any more. He also said (not in these words, but it was what he meant) that the cheaper you are the more work you'll get so it's better for you in the long-run to accept a lower rate of pay.
Is this bu*****t or is this really all I can expect? Should I go back in and push for more (I was thinking £120-£125 per day) or would this be pointless?
I know that agencies are not bound by the same rules for working out pay as council or school-employed supply teachers (for which I would be entitled to earn £135 - £140 per day), but surely £110 is too low???
Anyone in the Birmingham/West Mids area who has any experience of rates of pay, please let me know if I am right or living in cloud cuckoo land!! Thanks:D

[NuttySupplier]

Hi becstar...

Agencies will pay you what they want to... you don't know either what they're charging the school I guess, which could be MPS! Some schools want the cheapest, for others it's more about quality (which I'm not saying goes hand in hand with expense, but their outlook is different.)

Have you tried going directly to schools, bypassing the agencies? Then you should be charged MPS.

[becstar]

Hi Nutty!
Thanks for the reply. I thought as much - agencies seem to hold all the cards - especially at the moment when job security is decreasing and competition for supply work is rising!
I had actually thought of 'going it alone' originally and even went to the trouble of drafting a letter to schools and getting some business cards printed. However, I mentioned going self employed to my union and although they didn't say don't do it, alerted me to some pitfalls such as:
1. Needing to fork out for a CRB for each different school you work at.
2. Not getting as much work as with an agency as schools (especially in big cities like Birmingham) tend to use agencies for convenience.
3. The possibility of being wanted by two different schools at the same time and therefore annoying one of them!
4. Having to sort out your own tax, NI, etc
5. Your union not being able to represent you if any kind of disciplinary or similar situation arose as they would technically be fighting against you as you are employing yourself and there would therefore be a conflict of interest (not sure about this one - sounds a bit weird to me but this was what I was told)!

I know that you were self employed (and successfully so) as I have read some of your other threads and you offer some very helpful advice, but your comments on these points would be very interesting
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In your experience, how relevent do you think these points are?

[NuttySupplier]

Hi, well, those points could be valid if you were self-emplyed as a supply teacher, read posts by Clarabelle on here as she was...

However, yes, I am self-employed, but doing accountancy and consultancy work and as a director of a company... none of which are to do with education...

The above points:
1. I worked in 13 different schools in my first term, and none of them asked for a CRB cert. However, in the second term, I started to do more regular work at 3 schools, and each of them instigated getting a CRB check done through the local authority.. I was employed the same as any other teacher in the school, albeit for one-day only contracts at a time. The one-day contracts were covered in the next five years at that school by the CRB prompted originally, but whenever they asked me to do a term cover / part time post etc., that always prompted a new one as I was getting a 'proper' contract. I never paid for my own. From the first day, I was employed by the county council and paid by their pay
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dept.
2. Rubbish. I believe! I approached schools in the area I wanted to work in, and worked on average 0.7, which was always my intention, for nearly a decade. I met many teachers who were working through agencies along the way... one (off topic!) had driven 81 miles that morning, had been told it was a full day, possibly leading to a full week covering a teacher who was ill, only to be told when she arrived at school it was only for the morning to cover an appointment [dental]... She'd got out of bed for less than £20, when tax and mileage were taken into account.

It's more about building relationships with staff and children than with the agencies.
3. Yes, I wished some days I could work in 3 different places at once... but a polite 'I'm afraid I'm already booked that day' didn't exactly annoy them. If you work through an agency, the same problem could still happen... if you've impressed a school, they may call the agency and ask for you by name, and you could already have work elsewhere!
4. As above, I wasn't self-employed teaching, but there is the benefit if you are of sorting out your own tax/NI, you can claim!! Claim 40p a mile to get to the schools, claim for clothing and stationary etc... Knock your tax bill down!
5. Buy Professional Indemnity Insurance. I was always a member of a union anyway.

HTH

[janeb]

Hi Bec,

Nutty (as always) has given a thorough reply so I haven't got much to add.
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I work for 2 schools direct and receive about £160 a day through the county council - I also do very rare work for an agency (a lovely school will only use an agency although the school actually call me direct!!) and I am only paid £115 a day. I think I am worth more than this so I often turn down their work.

So basically, yes, £110 is an average amount for an agency - I'm sure they charge the school £160 and take their share to cover their staffing costs etc - a pretty big wack though!

Take Nutty's advice if you can!

[NuttySupplier]

Oh gosh, I think I completely forgot until I read yours Jane, to say how much I got!

I got paid to scale for every day I worked, and that included UPS too.

[Beatrice]

Hi there,

I've been doing supply work in secondary schools in South Wales for over 20 years as a language teacher and always through the local LEAs. However I haven't had any work now for a year. I've just phoned an agency and asked them how much they would pay me for a day's work and I was told £90. This compares to £162 with the LEAs. (I am at the top of the Main Pay Scale with the first Threshold increment). Not only that but the agency won't accept any of my 3 CRB certificates, none of which are yet out of date and 2 of which are with local LEAs so I 'll have to pay £52 for a new one. Furthermore, I'm not sure I accept their claim that there will be loads of work for me as I've heard that much of the day-to- day supply work is going to cover supervisors or supply teachers prepared to work at CS rates. And don't get me started on the lack of pension provision with agencies.....

This is all terribly depressing. I've written to Leighton Andrews, the Welsh Education Minister, Assembly Members, the NUT and goodness knows who else about it, but all to no avail.

I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts, advice or contributions.

Beatrice

[NuttySupplier]

Reading and reading, I can't see that supply teachers are going to survive much longer in secondary schools I'm afraid... B*gger! Cover supervisors 'will do' so the school business managers are pushing them..

[Bartypit]

Hi , as a returning teacher some 2 years ago ,I had no
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of rates of pay. I have only worked in one school, and get paid via the LEA (Devon CC) I get an hourly rate , and only get paid for 5.25 hours a day, obviously I always end up doing more than that, but I read that they are supposed to pay 6.48 hours a day under statutory guidelines... Is that an enforceable rate? Or can DCC get away with an hourly rate. I note also they have recently set up their own in house supply service, and are quoting daily rates of £160-180! I get Just about £25 ph, for 5.25 hours, ie about £130. Does anyone else have experience of Devon? Thanks !

[Kasper12]

HI,

I work as an Educational Consultant for a well established Birmingham Supply Agency.

Agencies have hundreads of schools who all have different requirements eg : Staff with crbs completed by the agencies, cheaper charge rates or high quality teachers with 20 years plus experience. It is good practice for a supply agency to work on an individual basis when selling in a candidate to the school, so take yourself as an example :

I would specifically sell you in as a high quality teacher and for which the school would have to pay you a minimum of £145 a day ( the majority of mine do pay this much.) If a school is aware of your experience and you have good references you will get the work!!!

I must say that we as consultants do get the rough end of the deal, the majortity of schools put the phone down on you and shout at you when all you try and do is your job. It does make me smile that they do this even when you are doing them a favour.

If you want top be paid well and looked after by consultants who have a minimum of 2 years experience then please let me know.